Talk:D7 class/archive
Wasn't there a D7 in ENT: "Unexpected"? Or am I misremembering? And the ship in VOY: "Prophecy" is listed on both this page and K't'inga class. Which is it? -- Steve 20:01, 8 Dec 2004 (CET) :Both -- the term D7 class is a misnomer -- the D-7 is actually the design, which both the D7 class and the K't'inga class belong to, variants of the same design. (Just as the B'rel class and K'Vort class are both Birds-of-Prey, and some are D-12s) -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 20:07, 8 Dec 2004 (CET) ::In the episode "Prophecy", Tuvok reports: "Tetryon readings indicate it's a D7 class cruiser." Tom Paris replies, "D7? They were retired decades ago." ::As K't'inga class cruisers are still in service at the time this episode is set, I believe the ship is a D7 class cruiser, not K't'inga class. --Defiant | ''Talk'' 11:12, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) :::Whether or not it is decommissioned is irrelevant if the class was misidentified. Therefore, obviously any corresponding speculative data about being retired is going to be wrong to. It is a K't'inga, as that was the model blatantly used by the VFX group, as well, there is a statement that was made by Mike Sussman explaining the error in the script (it's all in the link). That by no means, is any sort of "some fans believe" speculation as is now posted in the article. Adding comments about D7 variations is purely speculative, whereas this should be treated as an obvious technical error by the writers/vfx and should be explained as such, as it more or less previously was. --Gvsualan 15:21, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC) ::My mistake -- I looked at the link, but only saw the first paragraph on that particular ship, where I read the suggestion that the ship was a D7 class variant. --Defiant | ''Talk'' 15:30, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC) :::I agree with Capt. Mike. The terms D-7 class and K't'inga-class are interchangeable. Does that really contradict Paris' line in "Prophecy"? Not necessarily. IIRC we never saw any K't'ingas in active duty in the 24th century until "The Way of the Warrior". So it's possible that the Klingons really decommissioned that class decades ago, but recommissioned and refitted them in 2372/2373 to support their war plans. And Paris, more or less out of touch with the Alpha Quadrand since 2371, simply wasn't aware of that. ::I'd like to point out that in the last DS9 episode, if you look carefully you can see two types of Klingon ships that come from the D-7 lineage. One is the standard K'T'inga that we've grown familar with, from DS9, the flashback episode in Voyager to Tuvok on Excelsior, and Undiscovered Country. The other is the same model used in Enterprise and Voyager. Both have completely different nacelle designs. Personally, I think that the ships seen in Enterprise and Voyager are D-7's (they match the nacelle design of the Trials and Tribble-ations D-7), whereas the others are all K'T'inga's. And as both separate models appear in the last DS9 episode, it seems reasonable to assume that as the Klingon Empire took the brunt of the war for the last few months they are reservicing and refitting old D-7 cruisers for active combat duty. - Sabre ::It may also be the case that the Klingons, being a tradition bound people, are loath to give up on a design that has served them well since the 22nd century. They may want to command ships just like the ships thier fathers and grandfathers flew into battle, so they just keep building varients on the D-7. It's not the most logical explaination, just an in-universe reason for cheapness on the part of the studio. -mechascooby Challenge to user Gvsualan aka Alan DelBeccio to prove his (phoney) reference that the D-7 is said to go at Warp 9 in "Elaan" and "Ent Incident" Otherwise stop re-inserting that phoney reference in there everytime I change it. I honsestly get the feeling you're more interested in spite than accurate information. --Atrahasis 23:19, 20 Dec 2005 (UTC) * I'm not sure your title, tone or attitude is appropriate for this situation, nor am I quite sure what exactly makes you think you are some sort of authority on the subject-- I do, however, highly suggest you review the end of the episode cited. However, just in case my "spite" is blinding my interpretation of what should otherwise be simple logic, let me explain the source's' of the reference here: :*Kirk: "Mr. Sulu, take us away from the Romulans. Warp factor 9." :*Sulu: "Holding at warp 9, sir." :*Romulan Officer: "Subcommander, the enemy vessel is moving away at extreme speed, sir." :*Tal: "Helmsman, flank speed. Weapons officer, stand by to fire main batteries as soon as we reach optimum range." :*Spock: "150,000 kilometers, Captain, and closing very rapidly." :*Spock: "100,000 kilometers. They should commence firing at us within the next 12.7 seconds." * Now forgive me if I am wrong, but if Ship A is going Warp 9 and Ship B is overtaking it, at "flank speed", then my Gen Ed Math skills tell me that Ship B must be going faster than Warp 9. Hardly a "phoney" assessment, and so the fact remains... --Alan del Beccio 18:06, 21 Dec 2005 (UTC) ::* I tend to agree with the dialogue also. Also, I don't see the need for an accusation of spite -- a simple request for the citation would be a better tone to take -- any archivist should be able to comply with supplying their source if you simply initiate talk without the edit war. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk Regarding D7s/K'tinga's pre-WOTW The ship that came to pick up the Klingon renegades in "Heart of Glory" was a D7/K'tinga. The footage that showed the ship on Enterprise's viewscreen was directly lifted from the ST:TMPCapt. Christopher Donovan 02:46, 16 Jan 2006 (UTC) What's the gag? :D7 derives from one of Shatner & Nimoy's "inside jokes" . I don't get it. Does anyone else? Igotbit 04:46, 29 January 2006 (UTC) : The bit was explored in a Roddenberry excerpt of The Making of Star Trek, however I cannot find my copy of it at the moment to add it. But the essence of it, as I recall, was that they were having a mock argument on what the class of Klingon ship was supposed to be-- D6 or D7. I think what the whole thing boiled down to was how seriously the production staff take the show at times, and the argument was making fun of that fact. I'll have to dig around for my copy and see if I can add the whole story. --Alan del Beccio 21:16, 13 January 2007 (UTC) One for Apocrypha The FASA Star Trek role-playing game (while obviously noncanon) identified the older, TOS-version of the design as the K't'agga class.emperorkalan 21:46, 16 March 2006 (UTC) *The FASA manuals also give the indicate that "D" in the D7 nomencalture stands for Drell a word of indeterminate meaning and origin in Klingonaase.Wejvagh 21:28, 12 February 2007 (UTC) :The Drell are a servitor race within the Klingon Empire in John Ford's "The Final Reflection", one of the pre-Richard Arnold era's most popular Trek novels, which the FASA writers used as parital reference. The Klingon's so admired the "pod/boom/wing-body" design of Drell ships that they made it a mainstay of their OWN shipbuilidng philosophy.Capt Christopher Donovan 07:16, 16 May 2007 (UTC) Unclear statement The K't'inga-class battle cruiser would begin to replace the D-7 class during the 2270s, and were finally "retired decades" prior to 2377. (Star Trek: The Motion Picture; VOY: "Prophecy") Is the retired ship the D-7 or the K't'inga? The article sounds like the latter, but if that were the case, it doesn't make sense for it to be included on this page. In either case, it would be good to edit the text to be clearer. I started to, but realized I wasn't sure of the intention.--216.119.235.42 04:24, 24 May 2006 (UTC) Removed info This info didn't make much sense to me at first, but I guess it does now. Aside from poor spelling, it also rehashes what was already explained, so it's not really needed. --From Andoria with Love 05:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC) :K't'inga is the also the name of the cruiser in Star Trek the motion Picture written by Gene Roddenberry,(speculation: the K'tinga class cruiser tho not stated as such was presented as the upgrade of the D-7 much as the new Enterprise Class was the upgrade to the constitution class in Gene Roddenbery's Novel.) Constitution/D7 profile image The TAS screenshot of the Constitution and the D7 is nice, but (if anyone happens to have it handy) I think an even better addition to this artile would be the computer schematic shown in The Enterprise Incident depicting a scaled comparison between the two ship classes. 47 reference I thought it was interesting to point out that the D7 class are part of the 47 phenomenon. "D" is the fourth letter of the alphabet and hence we get 47. --The NCC Factor 16:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC) :I've removed it from 47 references, as has been done at least twice before. The fact is that it is not a number, but a letter, and it is really starting to get to be a stretch how much we allow in that article. Without official confirmation that it is a 47 reference, it should not be included, as it is not 47. In addition, User:TOSrules has pointed out that D7 was not mentioned or seen until after TOS, and therefore does not belong in the TOS section. --OuroborosCobra talk 17:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC) Sorry if it was innapropriate. Although I think I can remember other examples of letters such as Harry Kim's apartment but admittadly I can't remember whether it was an intentional reference or not. --The NCC Factor 17:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC) Oh and I'm sure that now it's on the talk page the same mistake won't be made again. --The NCC Factor 17:39, 19 March 2007 (UTC) :: Actually D7 was first referenced behind the scenes during TOS, but not on screen until much later.--Alan 02:15, 7 May 2007 (UTC) Photon Torpedo Do we really have any evidence of D7s having photon torpedoes? I don't think we do and I'll even go so far as to say that we should take it out.--AC84 03:59, 16 May 2007 (UTC) :At the very least, there are the torpedoes from . --OuroborosCobra talk 04:10, 16 May 2007 (UTC) ::Having seen the episode two weeks ago, I don't remember them mentioning those as photon torpedoes. They weren't even red like K't'inga's (now well-knowned photon torpedo) bolts, but in fact looked a lot like the typical green disruptor bolts, only in torpedo or in pulse form. They could even still be another form of magnetic pulses. To me, one of the (very few) real main differences between the D7 class and the K't'inga class is the now obvious change in primary weapons.--AC84 04:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC) Magnetic Pulse Launcher?!?!? Where did that come from? Certainly not from "Errand of Mercy" remastered or no. It came from where the forward torp launcher is mounted, so it seems obvious it's a torpedo.Capt Christopher Donovan 07:22, 16 May 2007 (UTC) :I couldn't recall such a weapon either, and sure enough, there is no reference to magnetic pulse anything in the transcript for "Errand of Mercy". Now, I haven't seen the remastered version, but given that the magnetic pulse article has existed since 2005, it didn't come from any line or graphic added in the remastered episode. I honestly don't know where this weapon came from. --From Andoria with Love 09:52, 16 May 2007 (UTC) The remastered ep has the Klingon fleet firing blobs of light at Enterprise from their pods. These shots replace some stock footage of Enterprise being hit by blobs of light (presumedly torpedoes). The fire in question comes from the same place on the pod as the K'tinga's torp tubes in TMP. I'm gonna rework this stuff out, since it seems to me to be someone's speculation, rather than anything from canon.Capt Christopher Donovan 06:54, 17 May 2007 (UTC) The magnetic pulses ARE canon. The transcript that Shran/From Andoria with Love posted is incomplete. If you need proof, either pull out the DVDs or look up this website: REAL transcript for "Errand of Mercy". The phrase comes from the episode--specifically during the first battle scene. When Kirk and Spock are thrown onto the railing, Kirk screams out the words "magnetic pulses!" as if he knows exactly what kind of weapon has hit the ship and the alien origin of the weapon (Klingon). In Star Trek III, Kurg's Bird-of-Prey has an electrical energy weapon. I don't know how true this is, but I've heard from two different people that during a 2003 convention, Nimoy confirmed that the Klingon weapon was meant to be a magnetic pulse. Reportedly, Nimoy didn't like that the three Klingon ships in TMP used the same red photon torpedo effect that the Enterprise used later on in the very same film (the wormhole scene).--AC84 04:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC)